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Erogenesis  
#1 Posted : Saturday, July 16, 2016 10:44:42 AM(UTC)
Erogenesis

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ok I'm bored of all the bad news, shitty vibes and crappy outlook. Project E started of with enormous enthusiasm but I got really caught up in the failures of Poser (therefore also a lack of funds) and forgot that this is about artists and their art, not software. I'm going to do this for us (and also for my bank account obviously)

hello

But please, I'm not doing this to save Poser, eh, that's ridiculous. I've always been glad to help but Poser is a tool, not a totem pole. SM is a big boy and they should sort out their own shit. This is for artists, Poser and DS alike.

pe initial

goodjob

So as we've by now established, yes Poser is massively buggy, and PE doesn't work in P11, too bad, but it does work in Poser Pro 2014, and now apparently also in DAZ Studio 4.8 and 4.9. Yaay! so I'm going to go with that. Hopefully SM will clock on and fix the issues in P11 at some point.

wink

edit: If you're a big Poser fan and offended that I'm also trying to make her available for DS, please consider that I have LOTS of friends that use DS and they're very enthusiastic about the idea of having PE in DS. I get asked about it a lot too. I will be honest, I'm not a big fan of the company DAZ itself, but DS the software and most DS artists have nothing to do with that company IMO. And let's face it, its also good for Project E's prospects since DS is very very popular. Lali's Bits for DS is just as popular as the Poser version, and people have been begging me for the bits for DS since Genesis 2 came out.. SM has had their chance several times to make a Genesis contender, with lots of advice from you guys and their beta-testers, its not my problem that they didn't succeed. And like I've always said, this figure was initially for my comics, for art, and hopefully also for you. I developed it for Poser because I use Poser, but I've never had a problem with it working in DS (just didn't know how).

ds

cool

It will still take a bit of time, and comics have priority. I have three main Poser computers and two of them are dedicated to comics now. Posing and animating the comics will be time-consuming, but while they render I can work on PE on a third PC. I'll take it step by step, and I'm not going to touch the rig anymore lol.

woot

I will work on morphs... LOTS of morphs. I've already gone down the list that you guys have made here on the website. Once that's done I'll make a selection of core morphs and transfer them to the mannequins so that they transfer nicely to anything you convert for them. there will also be a V4 donor and perhaps now also a G2 and G3 donor, in Poser. How that will work in DS remains to be seen.

There might be other stuff, like textures but I don't want to raise too many expectations like before. Let me see how these morphs go first. There will be testing, maybe not three rounds but just a round or two. Vendors, artists, and community all in one go. That will only be fore general testing. The mesh and rig won't be changed... unless its easy to change. Changing the rig in Poser is risky. I wanna keep it simple from now on.

derp

So in short:

- she works in PP2014 and DS
- P11 compatibility will have to be dealt with by SM
- will make as many morphs as I can
- will try make some textures
- comics take priority
- donors and mannequins will help you convert stuff
- testing as soon as the rig is cleaned


Any bugs will be ignored and left there, unless its fixable obviously. I will try use P11 to make injections and split FBMs, if they work. That is not always guaranteed. I'll try, I just hope the injections won't infect the P10 version somehow.

This will take time, obviously. Comics take priority... and the country I'm living in is suffering from enormous power cuts, I sometimes have no power for 12 hours. That might slow things down too. There is a small possibility that I'll leave to Canada, depending on certain things. In any case I hope I can complete this project in a somewhat decent and useful fashion.

Thanks

cool

pe

Edited by user Saturday, July 16, 2016 3:42:34 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Floor13  
#2 Posted : Saturday, July 16, 2016 11:54:07 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Erogenesis Go to Quoted Post
. I'm going to do this for us (and also for my bank account obviously)


Got to put food on the table.

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jettamesis  
#3 Posted : Saturday, July 16, 2016 12:21:11 PM(UTC)
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Yes, please move to Canada! Much more stable and less chaotic than Europe right now, and fewer power outages.😀
isaoshi  
#4 Posted : Saturday, July 16, 2016 1:34:16 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: jettamesis Go to Quoted Post
Yes, please move to Canada! Much more stable and less chaotic than Europe right now, and fewer power outages.😀


This comparison with some monolithic entity you call "Europe" is not only inaccurate but also irrelevant, considering where Ero lives.
jettamesis  
#5 Posted : Saturday, July 16, 2016 2:48:50 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: isaoshi Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: jettamesis Go to Quoted Post
Yes, please move to Canada! Much more stable and less chaotic than Europe right now, and fewer power outages.😀


This comparison with some monolithic entity you call "Europe" is not only inaccurate but also irrelevant, considering where Ero lives.


Last time I checked, Great Britain is still part of the EU despite the Brexit vote, so technically the UK is still part of Europe. Ero's girlfriend moved back to the UK recently, and he was considering moving there too.
Erogenesis  
#6 Posted : Saturday, July 16, 2016 2:49:41 PM(UTC)
Erogenesis

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Originally Posted by: Floor13 Go to Quoted Post
Got to put food on the table.



yep!

Originally Posted by: jettamesis Go to Quoted Post
Yes, please move to Canada! Much more stable and less chaotic than Europe right now, and fewer power outages.😀


hehe, and nice mountains. I have lots of friends there. But like isaoshi says, just about anywhere will do actually haha

Originally Posted by: isaoshi Go to Quoted Post
This comparison with some monolithic entity you call "Europe" is not only inaccurate but also irrelevant, considering where Ero lives.


hehe, very true. Put me in japan, Finland or even Chile and I'll probably be fine too.
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Erogenesis  
#7 Posted : Saturday, July 16, 2016 2:55:00 PM(UTC)
Erogenesis

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Originally Posted by: jettamesis Go to Quoted Post
Last time I checked, Great Britain is still part of the EU despite the Brexit vote, so technically the UK is still part of Europe. Ero's girlfriend moved back to the UK recently, and he was considering moving there too.


Yep in the UK. The good news is that she's teaching herself blender / maya / unity and a bunch of other stuff and she's a natural too. So she might even be able to join me wherever I go! (and she wants too as well)

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matt  
#8 Posted : Saturday, July 16, 2016 2:57:08 PM(UTC)
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Do you know how well she functions in PP12? I never upgraded to 10/PP14 and if she wont work in 11 I'm kind of stuffed. :/
Erogenesis  
#9 Posted : Saturday, July 16, 2016 3:03:57 PM(UTC)
Erogenesis

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Originally Posted by: matt Go to Quoted Post
Do you know how well she functions in PP12? I never upgraded to 10/PP14 and if she wont work in 11 I'm kind of stuffed. :/


oh bugger, I'll have to test her some time, if I can dig up my old pp12. Maybe one of the beta-testers can try it. I'll let you know.
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thanks 1 user thanked Erogenesis for this useful post.
matt on 7/16/2016(UTC)
knyghtmarev3  
#10 Posted : Saturday, July 16, 2016 7:33:41 PM(UTC)
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I can test her in PP12.... but I don't know if I'm one of your beta testers....
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matt  
#11 Posted : Sunday, July 17, 2016 2:14:51 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: knyghtmarev3 Go to Quoted Post
I can test her in PP12.... but I don't know if I'm one of your beta testers....


I can test her too. But what a I testing? In my eyes as long as she bends, morphs, and poses correctly I'm great. PP12 doesn't have a fitting room, and the setup room is an alien world as far as I'm concerned.
Masterstroke  
#12 Posted : Sunday, July 17, 2016 5:55:02 AM(UTC)
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o.K PP12 is in the making. time to spam the SadoMaso company with our wishlists. Besides wishing to have (fullworking) PE as a native Poser figure (wich could give Ero a rather constant income), I'd also vote for a geocrafting technologie as a new feature.
About switching to DS: I didn't want to. Lot's of tools are just nicer to handle in Poser, but the most basic thing, as how your posed figure looks in the end, just looks better in DS. Whatever works is fine. Other software like Maya, MAX, C4D lack from an effordable content library. (Crap, I'm so spoiled with Poser/DS) those apps are expensive, and are not easy to learn. (Well C4D seems rather easy though).
Erogenesis  
#13 Posted : Sunday, July 17, 2016 8:02:35 AM(UTC)
Erogenesis

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I hope they go full unimesh now, and I hope they test the hell out of the version before releasing it... hehe and yeah PE as Poser figure would be pretty awesome, but there'll be way too many legal shit to sort out I think.

@knyghtmarev3: Sorry, with beta tester I mean one of the official Poser beta testers. They usually have every copy of poser installed. I'll let you know

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TonyVilters  
#14 Posted : Sunday, July 17, 2016 2:45:20 PM(UTC)
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It is indeed the general idea to go groupless.
This will solve some of the current limitations, but comes with a whole new set of rules to follow.

As always : Respect the basic rules and most of all: Get a working workflow before going full bore to achieve your goal.

LOL. Been, doing this for 20 years now. LOL.

2 Simple examples :

When is an obj file final?
Last week, I had to add 2 new rules to my already 22 lines long checklist of "items to check".

When is a rigging final?
Last month, I had to add : After at least 10 fitting room sessions with 10 different and purpose build clothing sets, run with autogroup set to OFF.
Then you can more or less say : I have a working rigging that will stand the test of time.
(Yes this is related to the: "a single vert can get 2 different weights" in a weight-bulge map as I wrote in the PM.)
Don't drive faster then your angel can fly !
Erogenesis  
#15 Posted : Sunday, July 17, 2016 11:10:42 PM(UTC)
Erogenesis

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Originally Posted by: TonyVilters Go to Quoted Post
It is indeed the general idea to go groupless.
This will solve some of the current limitations, but comes with a whole new set of rules to follow.

As always : Respect the basic rules and most of all: Get a working workflow before going full bore to achieve your goal.

LOL. Been, doing this for 20 years now. LOL.

2 Simple examples :

When is an obj file final?
Last week, I had to add 2 new rules to my already 22 lines long checklist of "items to check".

When is a rigging final?
Last month, I had to add : After at least 10 fitting room sessions with 10 different and purpose build clothing sets, run with autogroup set to OFF.
Then you can more or less say : I have a working rigging that will stand the test of time.
(Yes this is related to the: "a single vert can get 2 different weights" in a weight-bulge map as I wrote in the PM.)


trust me dude, the workflow was rock solid. Me and a few UV, modeling and poser experts did a great job putting together the mesh and designing the rig. Everything was planned to the dot. Morphs, packs, textures, JCMs, workflows, work order, and indeed when was it 'finished'. I make comics and I know exactly what is meant with deciding when I need to stop and decide its good enough. In fact, making comics is probably more complicated than making a Poser figure, much more planning of many more variables... but less bugs to slow you down.

So everything worked perfectly... except the platform. Every turn I took was met with resistance. And that was MEGA frustrating. So now its just a matter of "roeien met the riemen die je hebt" ;) Just wrap it up as best I can.

edit- just to give you an idea: the mesh was designed and made in two weeks. All bodyparts, UV islands, face, eyes, teeth, ears, bodyhandles, test textures, everything and corrections done in 3DSmax. It was intense, but we sailed through it because we planned it perfectly. We planned the same with the rigging in Poser... but ya...

beaten

And btw, autogroup actually solved a load of problems. WM transfers better when you let Poser decide how to group it. Of course its more elegant to try do the grouping yourself, but make sure you match the grouping of the base figure almost exactly.

We'll get there, somehow.

goodjob

Edited by user Sunday, July 17, 2016 11:21:53 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Erogenesis  
#16 Posted : Wednesday, July 20, 2016 6:40:59 AM(UTC)
Erogenesis

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whii I made finger tendon jcms today. I'll try make a render tonight, just doing some comic stuff first.
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TonyVilters  
#17 Posted : Wednesday, July 20, 2016 9:19:37 AM(UTC)
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You used the "autogroup" function?

Suddenly a LOT of your past comments become VERY clear.

It's the only function in Poser, up to and including P11 that you absolutely, and at ALL costs, HAVE to avoid during a new figures creation.

The use of the autogroup function is the critical piece of information I was searching for to find the "why".
Now ALL your previous comments about P11 bugs become very clear.

And, none of your beta testers commented on the use of that function?
WHAW !

Let's say : Problem solved.
Don't drive faster then your angel can fly !
Erogenesis  
#18 Posted : Wednesday, July 20, 2016 9:29:44 AM(UTC)
Erogenesis

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Originally Posted by: TonyVilters Go to Quoted Post
You used the "autogroup" function?

Suddenly a LOT of your past comments become VERY clear.

...

Let's say : Problem solved.


huh?

I only use autogroup for conforming items, not for PE itself.

I tried to be clever in the beginning and preserve the bodygroups of V4 and G2 clothing items to be able to keep the morphs in tact, but Poser doesn't transfer the WM over properly to the clothing. PE has a slightly different polygroup distribution than V4 or G2, with her hip group more like boxers and the thighs starting lower down the leg. It causes problems with transferring WM to clothing unless you wanna do that all manually. I discovered that autogroup sped things up considerably and transfers the WM pretty nicely.

But I obviously don't use autogroup for PE itself, that would be daft. So it doesn't have anything to do with the JCMs, FBMs and other controls.
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TonyVilters  
#19 Posted : Wednesday, July 20, 2016 9:36:16 AM(UTC)
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OK, I deleted my previous answer.
Oef.

Good to have the hip as a "H" group ad not a "V" group.

Autogroup still has to be avoided, even for clothes.
Don't drive faster then your angel can fly !
LaurieA  
#20 Posted : Wednesday, July 20, 2016 9:39:19 AM(UTC)
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Tread lightly vilters...Ero already feels like throwing in the towel without someone breathing down his neck. He'll figure out what he needs to in his own time.

Laurie
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